Most business podcasts fall into one of two categories: a newsblast with the top stories of the day, or a navel-gazing odyssey into some well-trodden topic. Both are listenable, and if you’re a fan of business news or an aspiring entrepreneur, you might get some insights out of them. But if you need something different from your business podcasts — something meatier, riskier, and more surprising — you need to listen to "The New Rules of Business," by Chief.

"The New Rules of Business" is a podcast for executives, by executives. Chief Co-Founders Carolyn Childers and Lindsay Kaplan talk with the best minds in and beyond business to unravel complex, real-life business problems. They aren’t afraid to ask tough questions — or make some of the world’s corniest jokes, because serious business can be seriously funny.

In our latest season, Childers and Kaplan dive into pressing topics such as the productivity drop, how an affirmative action ban will impact corporate DEI initiatives, and why traditional conceptions of power and influence are breaking down. They invite guests like author and speaker Erica Dhawan, Berkeley Professor Khiara Bridges, astronaut and former NASA Director Ellen Ochoa, and more to join them in challenging others to do business differently.

Listen to the season three trailer, out now, and be sure to follow and subscribe. Episodes launch every Tuesday.